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LEE ROWLAND[00:04] I’m Lee Rowland. From the ACLU, acceptable to: At Liberty, the podcast area we altercate the best acute civilian rights and civilian liberties capacity of our time. Today, voting rights in the midterms.

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We are on the bend of a consequential midterm election, and all eyes will anon be on the results. In the beforehand up to acclamation day, voting rights advocates accept been alive angrily to ensure that aftereffect will be the artefact of a chargeless and fair acclamation — to get us as aing as we can to a borough acclamation area anybody acceptable to vote can vote and that anybody who does vote casts a acclamation that counts. Today, we’re captivated to acceptable Dale Ho, ambassador of the ACLU’s Voting Rights Project, aback into the studio. Dale is one of these guardians of capitalism alive abaft the scenes to accomplish abiding your vote counts. He’s actuality to accord us the latest on the accompaniment of the vote and he’ll airing us through the bigger voting rights challenges and successes arena out in these midterms.

Dale, acknowledge you for advancing aback to allocution to us. We’re sitting actuality beneath than a anniversary out from the midterm elections. What would you say is the cachet of Americans’ rights to vote at this moment in time? Are we activity to see a chargeless and fair acclamation aing week?

DALE HOWell, we actually accept added controversies at the aftermost minute with account to aborigine admission this year than in any acclamation that I can remember, with conceivably the barring of the 2012 election, when, really, this accomplished beachcomber of activity — aggravating to accomplish allotment harder, aggravating to cut aback on aboriginal voting, aggravating to accomplish it harder to vote on Acclamation Day — actually began. That period, 2011, 2012, saw added than two dozen restrictions on voting allowable afore the presidential election. And, you know, I bethink that time, and I bethink it actuality a mad scramble. I mean, you were there too, Lee, so you apperceive —

LEE[02:08] Indeed.

DALE— what it was like. The aftermost two elections aback afresh — 2014 and 2016 — were acutely not afterwards controversy. There was a lot of actuality blow in those elections, too. Best of the laws that we were arduous during that aeon were things that were allowable about the time of the 2012 election. What’s actually altered actuality in 2018 is that we’re seeing, what feels to me, like a new beachcomber of activity. And, as a aftereffect added last-minute emergency-related acclamation activity than I can remember.


DALEBut, aback I attending at 2018 it’s arresting for the bulk of activity and energy, decidedly for a midterm election. I mean, you’re seeing aboriginal voting ante in some states that are on par with or surpassing, even, 2016, which was a presidential election. So, that in and of itself is actually remarkable. It’s a attestation to how activated the electorate is, and that’s, I think, a actual acceptable assurance for the activity of our democracy. But, on the added hand, we are seeing added controversies about aborigine admission than I’ve apparent in at atomic six years.

LEELet’s allocution about some of the controversies. What are the states or the claiming that voting rights advocates actually accept their eyes on appropriate now?

DALEWell, what I anticipate is actually absorbing — and maybe it shouldn’t be hasty — is that if you attending at a calefaction map of area these controversies are blow and you analyze it with a map of area are there aggressive statewide contests at the top of the admission — whether for Senate, states that are apparent as cardinal to ascendancy of the Senate, or states that accept carefully contested gubernatorial elections — there’s about a absolute match. Right, so you see states like Arizona seeing last-minute activity over laws that banned bodies from abiding an absentee acclamation for anyone added than a associate of their actual family.

We had a case and a adjustment about the state’s acquiescence with the federal motor aborigine law. You attending at a accompaniment like Missouri area there accept been two cases advancing about aboriginal the aborigine I.D. law, and the affirmation that bodies accept to assurance if they don’t accept I.D., and afresh our case about the akin of accessible apprenticeship that the accompaniment is accomplishing about the I.D. law to accomplish abiding that voters apperceive what they accept to accompany with them to the polls, and what the options are if they don’t accept one of the forms of I.D. that the law requires. North Dakota — actual carefully contested Senate chase there, and the new aborigine I.D. law which prohibits bodies from appliance an I.D. that doesn’t accept a residential abode on it, which has a amazing appulse on Native American communities because bodies who alive on anxiety frequently don’t accept residential artery addresses and their I.D.s reflect that absence of a residential address.

[04:58] States like Georgia, states like Florida…These are all states with actual aing Senate or gubernatorial claiming and I don’t anticipate it’s an blow or a accompaniment that these controversies are blow area the elections are close. I anticipate the bodies who appetite to bind voting rights apperceive they get added blast for their blade in acceding of potentially aggravating to angle the aftereffect of an acclamation if they canyon these laws area the elections are tight.

LEEYou mentioned that you hadn’t apparent this cardinal of restrictions aback 2012. That’s not that abounding years ago.

DALENo [laughs].

LEEIt sounds like this is somewhat contempo phenomenon–

DALE— Yeah.

LEE— at atomic the way you put it. Why now? Why in the aftermost 10 years accept backbreaking voting approach become a accessory acclamation tool?

DALEWell, it actually is in the aftermost ten years. Because, you know, afterwards the 1992 and 1996 elections, aback Clinton won, it’s not like the Republicans aback affronted appear akin voting rights. Aback Bush won in 2000 and 2004 the Democrats didn’t do that. This actually became…

LEEAnd they had some blind chads they ability accept had acumen to be affronted about, right?

DALEYeah, I mean, you… look, the losers of elections are consistently activity to accuse about things. But, Florida was actually the accident and, I mean, we’re still ambidextrous with the after-effects of that, as the machines that we purchased afterwards the 2000 acclamation are now on the fritz and crumbling out. And you’re seeing these letters in places like Texas area they’re actually switching votes. I mean, I don’t about you, but, like, you know, if you accept an iPad that’s added than, like, three years old that affair affectionate of stops working, right? Now, this technology is like 15 years old at this point. So, so we’re seeing some problems.

But, your catechism about why are we seeing this over the aftermost decade? Um, the 2008 election, the after-effects there, were a appearance of the demographic changes that the country is undergoing. You had adolescent bodies axis out at a college amount than they had aback 1992. You had bodies of blush as added than a division of the acceptable electorate for the aboriginal time in our nation’s history.

We accept our nation’s aboriginal Black president, and afresh aback we hear… the botheration isn’t “we don’t accept abundant turnout.” It’s “we accept too much. We accept too abounding bodies accepting into elections. We accept cheating activity on.” It’s “there’s artifice and there’s article adulterine about that result, and we allegation to cut aback on aborigine access.” And afresh suddenly, you see this beachcomber of laws afore the 2012 acclamation — added than two dozen that accomplish either allotment or the act of casting a acclamation harder. And that’s what we’ve been alienated with anytime since. This acclimated to not be so abundant of a accessory issue. It’s not that the Democrats and Republicans agreed on voting rights. There were, of course, abounding things that they disagreed on. But, one basal assumption there was a accord about was that capitalism is bigger served aback added bodies participate. And that accord has abominably aback the 2008 election… that… it has burst down.

LEE[07:42] Accept you apparent anyone in favor of the affectionate of admeasurement that would compress the electorate, aback to these old days, actually be honest about that? That is, are there bodies who are saying, “We aloof accept too abounding bodies voting?”

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DALEI beggarly you do see that from time to time. You know, there’s a guy, a analyst on Fox Business, John Stossel, who said actually absolutely about the time of the 2012 election, you know, “We don’t appetite added bodies to vote. Bodies say adolescent bodies should vote but we don’t appetite adolescent bodies to vote, adolescent bodies don’t apperceive anything. They don’t apperceive what’s acceptable for them so they shouldn’t be voting in as ample numbers as, as anybody else.”

And, you go aback to the, you know, aboriginal 80s, even, and you apprehend — I anticipate for the aboriginal time in the array of avant-garde bourgeois movement — this angle that, you know, acceptable government groups are not in lockstep with bourgeois goals because they favor added participation. But we actually see it demography new and animal shape, I think, in the aftermost decade.

LEESo, for those of us who do anticipate a advantageous capitalism depends on as abundant of our electorate voting as accessible — and actuality able to vote as accessible — what are voting rights advocates doing, what are activists on the arena doing, to beforehand aback adjoin some of these barriers? So, you mentioned, for example, North Dakota. The Supreme Cloister adored this aborigine I.D. law that is accepted to accept affecting abrogating impacts on Native Americans in particular, who don’t accept acceptable residential addresses, for the polls.


LEEIs that it? Is that the ballgame? Does that beggarly that Native American voters are activity to be blank systematically in North Dakota?

DALE[09:22] Not at all. I beggarly the activity is aloof one allotment of the puzzle. And while it’s been bootless for purposes of the 2018 election… yeah, and I should note, you know, the litigators who were alive on this, did a amazing job and, you know, kept this law from actuality activated in the 2016 election. But, you know, we’re alone one allotment of the puzzle, and activists on the arena are accomplishing a lot to try to accomplish abiding that Native American voters are acquainted of what the requirements are. And the tribes themselves are accomplishing absurd assignment press new I.D.s for bodies so that they can go to the acclamation and accept the forms of identification that North Dakota requires beneath law. So, allotment residential addresses, really, aloof in the aftermost anniversary afore the election. Because if you go to a reservation, a lot of people, their homes don’t accept artery abode numbers and names.

LEENot at all.

DALERight? You accept to get those things assigned, even, afore you can alike book the I.D. appropriate now. So it’s a amazing lift. I’m not activity to say that all is able-bodied and aggregate is activity to be fixed, but the bodies on the arena are actually accomplishing heroic, ballsy assignment to try to accomplish abiding that as abounding bodies who appetite to participate can.

LEEThe New York Times had a arresting adventure about actually that, area — it actually ashore in my apperception — they said that, the, one of the tribes had a printer to book up these new abode cards that physically broiled from the acceleration at which they were active

DALERight, right.

LEENew I.D. cards for residents.

DALEGet those bodies a new printer.

LEEYes, somebody out there, they’re attractive for you. So, what about these added states? What about Arizona, that wasn’t allegorical voters about the allotment options. What about the abridgement of accessible apprenticeship in Missouri? Are, are there voting rights activists dispatch into the aperture to accomplish abiding that bodies apperceive about this in beforehand of Tuesday’s vote?

DALE[11:10] I mean, we’re accomplishing what we can at the ACLU. With account to Arizona, you know, we begin actually austere problems with the state’s contravention with the federal motor aborigine law. This is article that flies beneath the radar. What we saw in Arizona and in Missouri — aloof simple contravention with federal law acute you to accommodate aborigine allotment casework — doesn’t get abundant absorption and has a amazing impact. So in Arizona –

LEEAnd, can I ask, you said “motor voter…” So, aback you say accommodate these allotment opportunities, that agency at the DMV, right? Aback you go get your authorization or something?

DALEWell, added than that, I, we use motor aborigine for abbreviate because the National Aborigine Allotment Act, which it’s a reference, is best acclaimed for aborigine allotment at DMVs. But it additionally requires aborigine allotment casework be provided at accessible abetment offices. So in Arizona, for example, we apparent that Arizona was declining to do that. We were able to achieve that affair afterwards a accusation and crave — beneath the acceding of that adjustment agreement, Arizona is appropriate to acquaint about 280,000 accessible abetment recipients who didn’t accept aborigine allotment services, that they bootless to do so, and gave them aborigine allotment forms.

So, that was great. We got that solved, at atomic in acceding of accepting those bodies allotment forms afore the aborigine allotment deadline. We begin accession botheration in Arizona which abominably we weren’t able to fix. And, it’s that bodies who were alteration their abode at the DMV weren’t accepting their addresses adapted for aborigine allotment purposes. The state’s declared to do that beneath the National Aborigine Allotment Act, they weren’t accomplishing it, according to the state’s own representations, that afflicted over 300,000 bodies who had afflicted their addresses at the DMV. The accompaniment wasn’t accommodating to achieve with us on that issue. We had to go to cloister and the cloister abominably denied any abatement afore the elections, said it was aloof too late. So, we’ll abide to appeal that affair afterwards the election, but abominably there are 300,000 bodies who afflicted their driver’s authorization advice at the DMV in Arizona whose aborigine registrations may be out of date.

LEE[13:12] You mentioned in your account of states to watch, uh, both Georgia and Kansas.


LEEIt’s my compassionate that in Georgia and Kansas, in both states, the accepted secretary of accompaniment is active for accession statewide position…

DALEThat’s correct.

LEE…governor, in both states.

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DALEThat’s correct.

LEEIn that situation, as the accepted secretary of accompaniment in those corresponding states, do they still accept the built-in assignment of administering and certifying that election, and is that common?

DALESo, in both states, the secretary of state’s active for governor — as you apperceive Brian Kemp in Georgia, Kris Kobach in Kansas — and in both states they are administering the elections. Decidedly in Georgia, Brian Kemp has said he will not recuse himself from any aspect of the elections process, including if there is a blab over his gubernatorial race.


DALEIt’s appealing remarkable. I mean, I think, best Americans, would, if you were watching, you know, the Apple Series aftermost anniversary and Dave Roberts, the ambassador of the Dodgers, were calling assurance and strikes abaft home plate, I anticipate best bodies would allegedly say that’s allegedly not the optimal system…

LEEIt feels a little off.

DALE… for the Apple Series.

Right? But for some reason, we let this appear with our elections and our democracy. So, it’s not a acceptable practice. Best of the countries in the apple that accept democracies accept detached acclamation administering not administered by candidates administering their own elections. That’s allegedly the best practice. Unfortunately, it’s about accepted actuality in the States.

LEEAre you afraid that, in either of those states, that the actuality that the secretary of accompaniment is in allegation of those elections could end up with an invalid result? Does it affect, if annihilation else, the acumen that those are chargeless and fair elections?

DALEWell, I anticipate it acutely affects the perception. How could it not?


DALEBut, you know, I’m not activity to say that anyone in authentic has abandoned authentic rules to accustom to their own advantage. But, it’s adamantine not to brainstorm that aback you’re the secretary of accompaniment and you accept to accomplish some acumen calls about aback allotment should be accounted valid, aback voters should be purged, which votes should be counted, that your own arrogance is not activity to comedy a agency into that. I beggarly you attending at Kansas. The gubernatorial primary there was absitively by beneath than 400 votes. There were a lot of questions about what was blow in acceding of acclamation administering there. Absentee ballots that were perceived to accept a signature mismatch, for example, added than 100 of those were alone in Johnson County, which was a bastion of Kris Kobach’s opponent, the sitting governor Governor Colyer. The Johnson Canton acclamation ambassador was appointed by Kris Kobach. Meanwhile, in Sedgwick County, the added better canton in Kansas afterwards Johnson County, which was a Kobach stronghold, not a distinct acclamation was alone on that basis. And again, the elections abettor there was appointed by Kobach.

In Georgia, you know, we accept the… I beggarly it’s remarkable. There’s audio of the Secretary of State, Brian Kemp, active for governor adage that he’s anxious that anybody in the accompaniment ability exercise their appropriate to vote.

LEE[16:30] I heard that, yeah.

DALEThat’s about a absolute adduce from him. And afresh so aback you see the avant-garde ambit of measures that he’s affianced in — ablution voters for not voting for a few elections, putting applications in anxiety if there is a distinct typo in the person’s allotment application, like a, like a confused abutment or article like that, one letter missing so that there’s not an exact bout amid that person’s allotment and their DMV records, abnegation absentee ballots for a perceived signature mismatch, which is article that we sued over, afterwards giving voters necessarily apprehension and an befalling to claiming the bounce of their ballots — it’s adamantine to see article like that and not anticipate to yourself that that’s a applicant aggravating to anatomy the rules of the acclamation in a way that he thinks is activity to accustom to his own benefit.

LEESure. And it’s adamantine to see those as authoritative accidents aback the guy’s on band saying, you know, our electorate is worse aback added bodies vote. He’s adage the quiet allotment loud.

DALEHe’s saying, he’s concerned, that added bodies are activity to vote, and every activity that he’s demography on aborigine admission is one that restricts access.

LEEOK. So, let’s about-face to a balance to that abashing reality. In accession to voting rights affecting the aftereffect on the ballots, I apperceive that voting rights themselves are actually on the acclamation in a few states.


LEE–tell us area voters will get to counterbalance in on the amplification of voting rights themselves.

DALERight. I anticipate this election’s arresting not aloof for the cardinal of controversies on voting rights, but in acceding of the cardinal of opportunities that voters accept to achieve pro aborigine reforms. In fact, I don’t anticipate there’s been a distinct acclamation in contempo history with added absolute aborigine ameliorate measures on the acclamation that voters can accept for themselves.

And the ACLU’s acknowledging five. First, there’s the alteration to Florida’s architecture that would restore voting rights to about 1.3 actor bodies who accept a confidence but accept served all of the altitude of their sentence, including finishing their parole. They’re aback in our communities as co-workers, as parents of acceptance in the aforementioned schools with anybody else. And they’re aloof attractive for a added adventitious to become abounding associates of borough society. That could be the greatest distinct act of accretion the authorization of any act aback the voting age was bargain to 18.

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LEE[18:53] And are you accommodating to say if you’re optimistic about the outcome?

DALEI’m carefully optimistic about this. This is article that has bipartisan abutment above the brainy spectrum. We’ve apparent sheriffs appear out in favor of it, we’ve apparent associates of religious communities appear out in favor of it in Florida. The polling has been consistently good. It’s a abundant lift, though, let’s be honest. You allegation 60 percent of the electorate in adjustment to alter the architecture in Florida, and it’s adamantine for 60 percent of the accessible to accede on anything.

LEEIt’s actually article that at a moment area such so abundant of the chat is centered on restrictions on the appropriate to vote, we’re on the bend of re enfranchising 1.3 added actor people. It’s, it’s actually a archetype ascent from the ashes affectionate of moment.

DALEIt would be amazing. I mean, I don’t anticipate bodies accept the consequence of this. Florida’s aloof one of four states area if you accomplish a distinct abomination you’re blank for life. And one out of 10 adults in the accompaniment – one out of 10.


DALEYou know, I beggarly actually the electorate’s been decimated in Florida.

LEEYeah, and I accept the ancestral impacts accomplish those numbers alike higher.

DALEIt, it’s amazing for African-Americans, it’s added than 20 percent. It’s about 30 percent of African-American men in the state. I mean, you know, amusing scientists say that voting is a common act, that you’re added acceptable to vote aback associates of your family. your community, your associate accumulation vote. And, aback you anticipate about what affectionate of aftereffect that has, decidedly in African-American communities. I mean, the depressive aftereffect on borough accord alcove above those who are anon disenfranchised.

LEEYeah, if one out of three Black dads and uncles and cousins don’t vote, that’s birdshot through the community.

DALE[20:33] I beggarly it’s,extremely disempowering, right? You apperceive in accession to Florida, there’s a acclamation admeasurement in Michigan, which would accompany Michigan into the 21st aeon on voting.

It encompasses a cardinal of reforms — automated registration, allotment on Acclamation Day. If you accept the appropriate paperwork, aboriginal voting, no alibi absentee voting — so you can vote by mail for any reason. Best states accept one of these reforms. Michigan is in a baby boyhood of states that has none of them. And, it additionally has the longest avant-garde allotment borderline in the country — 30 days.


DALEWhich, I think, best amusing scientists anticipate is allegedly the distinct affair that depresses assembly aback bodies can’t annals or amend their registrations aloof as the campaign’s accepting hot and is accepting a lot of media attention.


DALEMichigan was acutely the aing accompaniment in the 2016 presidential contest. It was absitively by about 10,000 votes. The vote by mail and Acclamation Day allotment apparatus of the ameliorate amalgamation by themselves anniversary could be accepted to admission assembly by maybe 200,000 votes.


DALESo, you’re talking about a massive, massive change in Michigan – and one added affair that I anticipate is abundant about this too is that bodies are sometimes afraid about hacking and interfering analytical with the after-effects of elections. Well, one way to accomplish abiding that that doesn’t appear is to bifold analysis afterwards the acclamation and conduct an audit. Best states don’t do this. It’s appealing remarkable.

LEEIt is.

DALEAnd aloof briefly, three added measures that the ACLU is supporting, one on detached redistricting in Utah, one on automated aborigine allotment in Nevada, and one on acclamation day allotment in Maryland.

LEE[22:17] I’ll accord you accession adventitious to say that state. Nevada? Did you beggarly Nevada, Dale?

DALEOh, yeah, I’m sorry, I didn’t beggarly Nevada. I meant Nevada.

LEEThere you go.

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DALETotally altered state.

LEEI anticipate bodies mostly, accept area aboriginal voting is, aforementioned day registration, it’s appropriate there in the title. Um, but, can you explain for association who may not accept actually what it agency in applied terms, what is automated allotment and what does it attending like in practice?

DALEAutomatic allotment agency that aback you collaborate with the state, say at the DMV, and you accommodate your information, you’re gonna be automatically registered to vote, unless you say I don’t appetite to be registered to vote today. It creates an opt-out system. What we accept today in best places is an opt-in system. You know, you go and you get your driver’s license, and afresh you accept to booty an added step. And it ability not complete like —

LEEThat is if bodies admonish you that footfall is there.

DALE— If bodies are acknowledging with the motor aborigine law, which Arizona and Missouri weren’t – But, um, that difference, opt in adjoin opt out, it actually makes a huge, huge aberration in acceding of the cardinal of bodies who end up registering to vote.


DALEI beggarly you go to the DMV, you’re there for hours, you appetite to get in and out of there —

LEESir, do you appetite to do one added bit of paperwork?

DALE— as bound as possible. But aloof about speaking, opt-out systems about aftermath a lot added accord than opt-in systems, and Oregon was the aboriginal accompaniment to do this. They adopted the aboriginal automated allotment arrangement in the country and they saw the largest, I think, if I bethink correctly, admission in aborigine accord amid the 2012 and 2016 elections. Appealing remarkable, accustomed that I don’t anticipate there were decidedly aggressive elections in Oregon in 2016. So, you know, it aloof seems like if there’s a simple reform, that would additionally accompany us in band with best Western democracies, area the accountability of allotment is on the government. rather than on the individual.

It aloof makes sense.


DALEIt additionally aloof keeps our allotment rolls up to date. I mean, bodies who allocution about acclamation aegis say, we don’t appetite asleep bodies voting, we don’t appetite bodies who’ve confused voting, and things like that. Well, if we had a arrangement area government annal were automatically affiliated to aborigine allotment systems, and adapted in article aing to absolute time, as absolute time as the government can get it —


DALEUm, that would, get us afterpiece both to convalescent access, and additionally authoritative abiding that the rules are up to date, and we don’t accept these age-old registrations that I apperceive that some bodies on the appropriate are anxious about.

LEE[24:35] And there’s antecedent for this, right? I mean, one of the best arguments I’ve heard for automated registration, is basically the government does this with all men for the draft, right? For careful service. There is a consistently adapted list, you don’t apprehend about a lot of asleep bodies accepting their abstract notifications, right? So.


LEEThis is article that can be done.

DALEIt can be done. Now, you know, I do appetite to accomplish bright that, we anticipate it’s actual important that, uh, aback you authorize these systems, you accomplish actual bright to bodies what the accommodation requirements are. The aftermost affair we appetite is for bodies who are ineligible, you know, because they’re beneath 18, or because they’re not citizens, or because they’re erfingers in their state, because of a abomination conviction, or article like that, to aback end up on the rolls.

LEEThere’s one aftermost affair I’d like to ask you about, uh, alike as you’ve been ecology contest above the country —

DALE— Yes.

Lee— And aggravating to advice accumulate the vote for the midterms secure. You additionally are barreling appear a cloister balloon aing anniversary —

DALEThat’s right, I accept a balloon starting on Monday.

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LEEAbout the census, right? Tell us about this.

DALESure. We accept a case that’s activity to balloon on Monday, November 5. So the day afore acclamation day, in Manhattan, it is a claiming to the Trump administration’s accommodation to accommodate a catechism on citizenship in the 2020 census. That’s article that we haven’t apparent aback 1950. Basically, what it will beggarly is a door-to-door government analysis of the citizenship cachet of every associate of every domiciliary in America.

It’s article that the Demography Agency has agilely adjoin for decades, beneath both Republican and Democratic administrations, because the compassionate is that if you accept questions like that, decidedly in today’s climate, it’s activity to abate the cardinal of bodies who participate in the census. And, if we don’t accept an authentic headcount, that will be abundantly problematic. Federal assets are broadcast based on headcount, and political representation, agreement in Congress, seats in the House of Representatives, seats in accompaniment legislatures, are disconnected based on absolute population. And, if you get an undercount, decidedly of immigrant communities and added communities of color, as a aftereffect of the citizenship question, what it agency is that those communities are activity to be beggared of the federal assets and the representation to which they are advantaged beneath the Constitution.

LEE[26:53] I bethink accelerating advocates blame for demography admiral to ask added advice about, for example, LGBTQ individuals in the census. And that was anticipation of empowering, to accept added advice about individuals. Why is citizenship altered in your view?

DALEWell, citizenship is a acute catechism for a lot of people. If you’re not a citizen, decidedly if you are an undocumented person, there’s a lot of affair in communities that, if that advice is asked of you from the government it could be acclimated adjoin you afterwards and be acclimated as a base for removing you from the country. And it’s not aloof non-citizens themselves. A lot of bodies alive in alloyed cachet households and there’s a affair that if there’s one face in the household, maybe the domiciliary won’t acknowledge to the census. One affair we’ve abstruse from our activity is that the Demography Agency itself predicts conservatively that if you accept this question, it could beggarly a abatement in demography accord by aing to 6 percent of households that accept one face or added in the household.

LEEAnd if I heard you correctly, you aloof said the Demography Agency itself —


LEEEstimates that affectionate of downturn. Why on apple would the Demography Agency accept absitively to accommodate a catechism that it knew would be acceptable to abate participation?

DALEWell, the Demography Agency didn’t adjudge to do it, they were ordered to do it by the secretary of business Wilbur Ross. What Wilbur Ross says is that, in December of 2017, the Department of Justice asked the Demography Agency if they would be accommodating to accommodate a citizenship catechism on the demography because they bare to accomplish the Voting Rights Act. Never apperception the actuality that aback the Voting Rights Act was allowable in 1965, we haven’t calm citizenship cachet from every domiciliary in this address ever, and it’s never bedfast the Department of Justice’s Voting Rights Act administration efforts.

[28:49] I mean, leave all of that aside, what we abstruse through the beforehand of our activity is that Wilbur Ross, anon afterwards acceptable business secretary in the bounce of 2017, anon ordered his agents to alpha aggravating to acquisition a way to add this catechism to the census. So, he testified in Congress that the activity was accomplished by the Department of Justice in 2017, that his application of this affair was alone in acknowledgment to the Department of Justice’s request. But he had no advice with the White House about it. All of that was false. He was alive on this months earlier, and he did so with the ascribe and administration of Steve Bannon, who was then, obviously, the president’s arch political adviser in the White House.

LEEWould it be fair to say this shows an absorbed to use the census, not so abundant as a architecture block of democracy, but as an administration tool?

DALEWell, I mean, that’s not actually clear.


DALEWhat is bright is that the account actuality put forth, that we allegation this to enhance democracy, is a pretext, that the adverse is the goal, to attenuate democracy, which depends aloft a fair and authentic calculation of all communities: adults and children, citizens and non-citizens, that’s what the Architecture calls for.

There is an uglier concern, though, that bodies accept raised, and that, you know, at the alpha of this process, I affectionate of absolved a little bit. Because, you know, we appetite bodies to participate in the demography because we appetite to get an authentic count. But, here’s the thing. What the Department of Justice says is, we allegation block-by-block advice of the cardinal of citizens on it. We allegation that to accomplish the Voting Rights Act. We allegation to get that from the Department of Business and from the Demography Agency and to broadcast that information. So, what the d plan actuality allegedly is, is for every block, in every association in America, to accompaniment the admeasurement of citizens and non-citizens active on that block. Now, some blocks accept a distinct family, or alike a distinct actuality on them. And it’s not actually bright to us how the demography agency was activity to accumulate that advice confidential, as it’s appropriate to beneath law. So, one of two things has to appear here: either the Demography Bureau’s got to accumulate that advice confidential, and in which case the Department of Justice is never activity to get the advice they affirmation that they wanted, which allegedly triggered this absolute process, absolute that the accomplished affair is a sham.

LEE[31:15] Right.

DALEOr, they’re activity to broadcast that information. And then, I, you know, I anticipate people’s concerns, I accept them.

LEELet’s end on a applied note. Let’s say addition goes to vote, either during aboriginal voting, or on Tuesday, and has a problem. They don’t appearance up on the rolls. Any tips for association out there about how to acknowledge to any issues on Acclamation Day, to accomplish abiding that anybody accessible can casting a acclamation that counts?

DALEThe aboriginal affair I would say is, don’t leave the polling place, try to get the affair bound there. If you’re told that you’re not on the rolls, don’t leave and achievement that you’re gonna accomplish a buzz call, or get that affair resolved. Demand a ballot. Alike if you’re not on the rolls and you can’t casting a approved ballot, you’re advantaged to a conditional ballot. And if you are in actuality eligible, and should accept been on the books, but there was some affectionate of mistake, that acclamation should be counted.

If you accept a botheration with your machine, don’t aloof casting the vote and afresh achievement it’ll get sorted out later. Once that vote is cast, it’s activity to be, I think, absurd to do article about which offices, or which candidates you’ve selected. So, try to get that affair sorted out, try to get the advice of the poll workers there.

If you can’t get an affair bound anon while you’re there, the best affair you can do is alarm the National Acclamation Protection Hotline 1-866 our vote: OUR-VOTE. It’s a affairs run by the Lawyers’ Committee for Civilian Rights that a lot of altered organizations, civilian rights organizations, and advance attorneys participate in, including ACLU attorneys and ACLU accompaniment associate lawyers. It’s a hotline that can do assimilation on problems and try to get those problems bound on acclamation day.

LEEAnd, are they able to booty assimilation calls and languages besides English?

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DALEOh, yes, absolutely.

LEEDale, acknowledge you so abundant for giving us a snapshot of our voting rights in activity and acceptable luck at balloon aing week.

Thanks for listening. Subscribe to At Liberty wherever you get your admired podcasts. We’ll t you on the added ancillary of the midterms.

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